The following are excerpts from conversations that artist Pavlo Makov had with various people from February 24 — the day Russia invaded Ukraine — until April 26, 2022. The excerpts are in the four languages he commonly uses: English, Italian, Ukrainian, and Russian.
24.02.2022
Dear Candida,
We have had to leave Kharkiv. I took Masha, my mother, Tania, and her mother. We now are near Poltava in a safe place in the small village. I had to wait two days to get my tire repaired. Tomorrow we will continue west, if we can cross the Dnieper River, then continue to Ivano-Frankivsk. I will give you more information later.
Love,
Pavlo
Ира, мы – как все. Метро рядом, собрались вместе. Я раздаю интервью… для Европы – про Биеннале и войну… Они все откуда-то взялись :-))
Саша, мы решили остаться, противно бежать из своего дома. Собрали всех у нас, я дежурю до часу, потом – Боря, чтобы не пропустить тревогу, если начнется обстрел. Пока всё ок, но завтра будет очень тяжелый день. Обнимаю!
Caro Massimo,
Abbiamo dovuto lasciare la città stamattina. Ho dovuto prendere mia madre, mia moglie e due amiche. Siamo a 120 km da Kharkiv, in campagna. Sono molto triste, la città è stata letteralmente devastata in modo rude, centro e quartieri civili.
Ti scrivo più tardi,
Pavlo
Да тут надо починить колесо… Латкой дырку – не супер. Хорошо бы иметь еще один диск с протектором, хотя бы 2 запаски, но это из разряда “примхи” :-)) Я могу попытаться съездить в Полтаву, но очередь в 3 ряда начинается за 10 км от города. Если есть возможность ремонта где-то перед Полтавой между Верхолами и городом, было бы лучше, но пойдет любой вариант.
Sono qui a Venezia da dieci giorni ormai per preparare il nostro Padiglione, poi farò tutte queste interviste per spiegare meglio cosa sta succedendo. Poi, dopo il 23, non so. Vediamo. C’è una grande tentazione di tornare indietro il prima possibile.
La gente deve capire che l’arte non è in grado di fermare tutto quello che sta accadendo nel mondo. L’arte può essere la diagnosi, mai la cura. Adesso che la diagnosi c’è già, è troppo tardi per l’arte fare finta che abbia alcun potere. Se l’avesse avuto, non sarebbe accaduto quello a cui stiamo assistendo. Per me, come artista, la situazione è chiara e limpida: se producessi qualcosa e avessi la possibilità di venderlo terrei il necessario per continuare a vivere e lavorare, e darei il resto all’esercito. Del resto l’ho sempre fatto, la guerra qui c’è già da otto anni.
Alexis, thank you. Quick answers:
1. Pavilion is under construction, and we do everything to make it true.
2. Who is Mousse? What book?
3. Do Po… about 700 out of 1000 copies are in my studio in Kharkiv. My son, while taking/saving my main works, took ten copies with him to Ivano-Frankivsk. The car was small and packed by the works.
4. The original of my work Do Po, which was the basis for the book, is with me in Italy. It is made from sixty-four pieces, approximately A3 size, drawing and intaglio in combination. You can find it on my site: makov.com.ua
Сначала ездил я, потом Маша Ланько вывезла воронки из бронзы в Италию, я забрал маму, ей 92, жену Марину, Таню Борзунову с мамой и мы выехали из города на 8-й день войны. Сейчас добрались до Венеции и занимаемся павильоном. Всё сделаем, 23-го будет открытие, что потом – не знаю, работать я тут не могу, всё в подвешенном состоянии… Остаться мне есть где, но нет смысла, работать я вообще не могу…
Тиберий, я уже даже слов не знаю про них, это отдельный словарь… его не создали. И я уверен, что это было заложено в их культуре. Как раковые клетки власти и доминирования. А ещё – эта пресловутая, “особенная” русская душа. “Особенность” эта как бы допускает оправдывать любое поведение, и в конце концов – и любые зверства… Хотя опять и это слово не описывает произошедшего.
Они разбросаны везде, эти клетки, – особенно в литературе. Незаметны на первый взгляд, но в итоге поразили даже тех, кто и литературы-то этой не читал…
Cara Elisabetta, è stato un grande piacere incontrarti. Grazie!
Poi, vorrei aggiungere una piccola cosa ma importante per quanto riguarda la fontana… Se prima dell’inizio di questa seconda fase di guerra totale, la fontana dell’esaurimento aveva in sé un certo avvertimento, adesso tutto è già cambiato. Oggi per me vale solo questo: abbiamo ciò che abbiamo. Il senso dell’opera non è cambiato, ma è cambiato il punto.
Мышка, спасибо! Слушай, да, вот прямо вчера. Нужно отправить, одной хорошей журналистке в Германии одну работу: “Доротея” или “Облога Харькова.” Сейчас вышлю ссылку.
Вы у нас с Машей из головы не выходите, мы гордимся вами ещё больше, хотя уже и некуда больше…
Но умоляем – берегите себя, я сам помню из 7-ми дней в Харькове, что там не так страшно на месте, чем когда тут об этом думаешь… Но все равно, берегите себя! Целуем нежно всех, до встречи!
Не надо, мои работы должны или выжить вмести с городом или погибнуть. Танины работы можно вывозить, но это обговорите с Таней. У меня не хватило ни ума, ни желания, ни смелости забирать своё прошлое. И я не хочу его тянуть с собой не известно куда. Целую!
И я не знаю Веронику – кто она, откуда и зачем вывозит работы. Если я не вывез, значит так тому и быть, это моя ответственность, я не хочу подставлять из-за своих просчетов других людей.
Спасибо вам, и только попробуйте не уберечься, если что… целую!
Dear Sandra,
Thank you! I also would like to say, it was a warm and not just “professional” meeting and talk. I always feel it, when formal questions start to show real, private, personal interest. And it was like that when we met. Thank you.
You asked me one thing that I didn’t know how to answer directly, because I never asked my mother what she thinks about it all — mostly not to disturb her too much. But the next day after our meeting, she called me, without crying (remember, she has strong character), and said just a few words. By that time she’d already seen photos from the small towns around Kyiv. She said it wasn’t like that even in World War II, and she was there all four years in it…
Warm wishes,
pm
No, I don’t think so! I’m sending you a quote from my letter to another magazine, for you to understand me better: “In fact I always thought, long before the war started, that art can never be more deep or more dramatic than real life. Art can only help us to go through our life, help us to survive the drama, but can’t really change it. This type of help is of course important but extremely modest. Some of my colleagues insist that art can change something. I would rather say no. Or, yes, but in the way that antioxidants can prevent cancer if you use them through all your life, regularly. It may preserve you, but also it may not. Art at its best can be a diagnosis but hardly the medicine.”
The new meaning of the exhaustion started to reappear already in 2005, and later it only grew. At least I felt it like that.
And it wasn’t at all only about Ukraine. Rather, it was more about the so-called democratic world. I felt it in Europe, that the mood and the feeling about life had changed dramatically. I felt this certain lack of vitality, a lack of readiness to protect our principles, a dependence on a certain level of stability and luxury in everyday life, based on a growing dependence on energy supplies from totally non-democratic communities.
In a few words: the exhaustion of humanity.
And from that general statement we can easily reach the exhaustion of our relationship with nature, the exhaustion of our human relationships based on the growing absence of these apart from so-called social networks. The exhaustion of our privacy, again due to total control through social networks. And a growing inability to protect the principles of our culture, which are freedom, dignity, the sanctity of human life, independence.
Finally, to protect the core of the democratic world. The exhaustion of democracy, if you like.
Don’t worry, dear Candida, they will not be able to pass us. Even if they do, they will be totally exhausted to continue. We’ll do our best. We promised, for us there is no other choice. We either win or die.
Катю, завантажити я його зміг – це не важко було :))) а от що з ним далі робити, не знаю, хоч вбивайте мене… :)))
Я прийду 16.00 до Маши у Джардіні, мені о 17.00 вже треба бути в Арсеналi на випробуваннях фонтану…
Dear Maria!
Thank you very much! We are nearly ready with the fountain. When opening is over, we don’t know yet what to do afterward. Our life is all in the past. Our future practically doesn’t exist without our home in Ukraine. And the war will go on for a very long time, unfortunately. We’ll win, but the price of it and the time wasted because of our neighbors will be even more dreadful.
Dear Maria,
Let’s wait. Thank you very much, but let’s wait. With everything I don’t even know whether we’ll be able to work…
Kisses from Masha, Tanya, and me!
Тиберий, огромное спасибо. Так и есть…
“Нам треба зрозуміти де і що складає основу людяності. І скласти іншу картину.”
Тут, у Венеції я постійно стикаюся з відчуттям, що я потрапив у минуле. І що мені конче потрібно опинитися знов в сучасному. Але між ними щось є, щось, що неможливо зараз перетнути. Якийсь бар’єр, поки що непереборний для більшості людей що навкруги, і тобі стає моторошно і лячно від переспективи опинитися у сучасному з невеликою кількістю близьких людей і що ви не зможете жити там без всіх інших. Як на Марсі, блять. Не буде кисню. Але і тут залишатися без того щоб не з’їхати з глузду майже нема можливостей. Бо і тут задуха.
Grazie, gentilissimo. Il sole è una cosa di cui abbiamo davvero bisogno, perché c’è troppa luce dalle finestre e le ombre della fontana diventano veramente deboli.
Более чем! Я низко кланяюсь всем, кто имел к её созданию хоть какое-то отношение, но прежде всего, тебе, дорогой дружок – и Боре, (впрочем он тоже – дорогой дружок) :)). Без вас я просто мишка с карандашом, с вами – я медведь с кисточкой!! Целую нежно, дорогая, тебя!!
Dear Beth!
We are ready with everything. The catalogues arrived today — they are very good indeed!
We all are busy with the interviews and will be even more busy over the next few days. I wish I could talk to you here in private, but I’m still happy to receive your letters and have this chance to write back to you. Any war has a cultural background, because culture is not just art, music, literature, ballet, etc. These are only instruments that help us to maintain a certain level of culture so that society will be able to continue its existence. Culture is about our ability to live together, the unwritten rules and regulations that transform all wild individuals into citizens. And it is our culture and nothing else that defines our relationship with our neighbors. Cultures based on privacy, which means freedom and independence, but both based on responsibility and respect, will always have a hard if not impossible time dealing with cultures based on power and domination, however strong they are. And, well, here we are. Love from Masha and me, warmest regards to Tom and all your family. P.S. Today I stumbled over the official statement from Russia: “…we have to reach the final solution of the Ukrainian question.” Doesn’t it sound familiar to you? Haven’t we heard this before?
Dear Veronika,
Thank you so much for all you did for my family! We managed to remake and finish our project here in Venice, and there is a part of your heart in it too!
Love from Masha and me!
Спасибо, Саша, мы смогли… Но это лишь первый шаг, надо, не теряя времени, идти дальше…
Да, стан та відчуття “плавають” від берегів надії і сил – до берегів розчарувань і зневіри.
Thank you very much for your letter, dear friends. I’m really touched and moved.
May I ask you, why was it necessity to list all the world’s contributors known to me?
I would have trusted you even without it. It would have been enough for me to know that you want to dedicate this issue to Ukraine.
But may I ask you: Why now? Why not in 2014, when this war was started? Or, to be really disturbed and moved, did you need more than 15,000 people to be killed in one of the European countries? We had already lost 15,000 between 2014 and February 24, 2022.
And the last thing: “…among many more (including also Ukrainian and Russian contributors).” I’m ready to be under one cover with anybody, but not with the representatives of Russia right now. Their “great” culture has brought up a society that now devastates our cities and kills, rapes, and tortures our people. Behind any war there is always a cultural conflict. This war is not an exception.
Dear Frank!
Thank you very much for your invitations!
Thank you for remembering us after eight years of war. I would be honored to be one of your contributors. However, now, after all I have seen and all we know, I have no moral right to share a platform with Russian authors. I hope you understand why.
Warm regards,
Pavlo
Grazie, cara!
Але важкий осад, здається, що не там – не тоді – не для кого… принаймні мені. Всі сприймають нас як цікаву пригоду, не розуміють, чому ми не налаштовані на “діалог”, блять, з сусідами, бо це шлях до миру…
I все інше. Та і у нас не розуміють до кінця сенсу існування нашої культури. Принаймні як державної програми репрезентації України як культурної спільноти, і далі по списку… Обіймаю!
Так, але, якщо ми не зможемо довести, що ми частка світової і європейської культури, (підкреслюю: їм тут довести, – бо ми самі знаємо що ми є), то важко буде
далі. Бо ми захищаємо не просто землю, ми захищаємо наше розуміння життя, наше бажання жити за цим розумінням. А це і є культура. І бісить, що доводити треба спершу в Україні.
Dear Andreas,
Thank you so much for all you and your people are doing for Ukraine! This is more important than any biennial now! The exhibition will be here till the end of November. There is still plenty of time to come, but what you are doing every day now is a live performance that is stronger than any art.
We’ll see each other in Vienna, and again thank you, for our mothers and for all our people you are helping now!
Love,
Pavlo & Marina
Dear Candida,
We are still here in Venice until the 1st of May. Then starts the unknown. No place, no studio, nothing is clear, and the family is diffused between Venice and Kyiv. There are few places where we can go. Here in Italy, people invite us to stay, and there is even a possibility to work in a friend’s studio in Florence, but I don’t feel I’m able right now. Kharkiv is out of reach — at least the authorities ask us not to come back yet. The war is a project with unlimited terms; at least our “dear neighbor” wants it to be like that. You know, I even can’t say I hate them. They simply don’t exist for me.
I already have thoughts and feelings about the possible development of the “gardens.” My dear friends and curators from Ukraine have ideas about future exhibitions somewhere here in Europe. It’s important to continue the dialogue we started during the biennale, but uncertainty dominates all. It will take time. Certain time.
Love from Masha, Tania, and me.
Yours,
Pavlo & Marina
26.04.2022
